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This dumbass argument again.
You need an opposition party then. If you keep blaming the voters you are going to keep digging your own grave. In America you have only two parties and legit no opposition party. In this way guess what, FASCISM always wins.
Also Please honestly explain to me, how in the fuck is fascism lite ever going to beat fascism?
Bro, DSA leaders have flat out said that that is too much fucking work. They could have a seat at the table, but that comes with the expectation that they will sit down, and in good faith, do some fucking work. But they don’t want a seat at the table. They want to be handed the table, all the chairs, and the keys to the building table is sitting in, and then thanked for saving the world without having to lift a goddamn finger. Obama spoke very openly about his time in office, and said that in his first year he was full of fire and optimism, and was all gung-ho about getting Americans universal healthcare or at least get us on the path to it, and very quickly learned how to be pragmatic. He never gave up his ideals, never changed his values, but in his first year he learned that he couldn’t just magically sign a paper and boom, everyone’s on Medicare. He had to do stuff that most DSA people find boring or tedious, like sitting down with Senators and Representatives and working on a plan together to get something started.
Maybe Democrats could have tried doing literally anything that people wanted
They were too cowardly to enact any change, and just tried to keep the status quo.
Refused to act against an attempted coup by the previous president, and suffered for it, as they rightly should.
Zionists are people. (Not good people).
“Wow you wanted the Democrats to do popular polices? You must be a Republican!”
Everyone wants something. At least they’re getting it now right?
“What are you going to do vote for the facists?”
–stays home
“Wait…”
(In all seriousness, the two party system killed us. The first thing we should have could have fixed was ranked choice voting but they would never mandate that because it would break their hold. Also despite my joke above I did vote but I’m not going to get pissy with someone that didn’t the problem is the party not the voter. Unless they voter actively voted red.)
¿Por Qué No Los Dos?
When it was the day of the general election and we were guaranteed to either get mainstream Democrat or Trump 2.0: The Revenge Tour, I could not morally justify any vote that didn’t minimize the chances of Trump winning.
But in the present day, and in the time leading up to the election, god damn the Democrats feel so worthless. Their party probably needs to be completely rebuilt even before the much much worse Republican party. You can’t have the Nice Conservative Party vs the Mean Conservative Party when the latter has gone off the deep end.
But also in the present day, it may already be too late. So keep on writing stern letters, insider trading, and raking in the fundraising while your desperate constituents still have some money and willingness to do something!
Yes thank you, this is the sane response. Sitting here in my neighbouring nation wondering if we’ll be facing invasion in the next year or two, I have no sympathy for people who couldn’t hold their nose and vote for harm reduction. I just can’t understand why so many Americans are too blind to understand that you can have harm reduction, AND oppose the democrats.
This is definitely a liberal take. I don’t agree with those who didn’t vote for Kamala, but removing responsibility from people running her campaign when there are obvious glaring issues such as retracting all populist messaging and appealing to non-existent right wingers voting against Trump was a real stinker to say the least. It’s okay to blame politicians who didn’t win for not winning.
God, this is the take I want to see. I’ll take criticism of my voting habits, but it should be proportional to my power. Democrats have more culpability.
You got a fascist elected. Hope your moral purity was worth it
I voted for Harris.
proportional to my power
This is the thing that always kills me. My vote was 100% worthless. Completely performative, just throwing paper to the wind. My state was one of the few that actually went for Harris, my state governor is one of the few actually fighting against Trump, my city has so far done an excellent job fighting back against him, and none of the races were even really close. I’m sure there are many other people, in the other firm blue states just like mine, who couldn’t stomach voting for genocide when they know their vote is just a gesture.
Yep, I live in California. Local ballots are more important for my state than anything federal level, and I still voted for Harris.
I live in the worst part of California where its rural so Republicans win 60% of the vote, and state-wide Democrats win 60% of the vote. Props and city level are the only places I have a meaningful change, especially since my “city” has 5000 people.
So if I vote aginast the Republicans running for the House, my one vote didn’t change much there as the redneck hillbillies who think California is communist are a voting bloc that can’t be swayed, and they never need ot worry about re-election. I still vote for the Democrat, but last elections had two Republicans for the seat, one was backed by Trump, one was backed by Trump’s aids and cabinet officials.
I’m still waiting for whatever the hell is supposed to happen after electoral politics has failed us, because it has.
I was told by people pushing for people to not bother voting in 2024 that voting was meaningless and that Trump would be no different than Harris. People told me that the solidarity of grassroots organization was the only way to see any real change, and that we had to reject the DNC at all costs. Well, we rejected it. What now?
PS: I don’t even mean this sarcastically or to win internet points – that are even more meaningless than on reddit – on this site. I’m actually asking, what are we doing now that this happened?
Now you get to feel like a sucker for falling for blatant propaganda.
If you’re genuinely asking some basic actions for a broad and general audience looking for political engagement:
A lot of states have initiatives and referendums citizens can bring to a vote in elections. There may be a grassroots organization working on an issue you may align with. (Especially vote reform groups looking to introduce alternatives to how we elect our government.)
Following this: Don’t be a stranger to your local government. At least learn who they are if you don’t. Your state reps and senators, your federal rep and senators, your kids’ school superintendent, the elected sheriff. Vote in the primaries, the odd years, the midterms, the big presidential tickets. And this isn’t ‘just vote’ advice. I mean vote for politicians pushing policies you agree with, regardless of party or incumbency. Don’t be afraid to third party in a primary (if you can).
Join community groups and socialize in meatspace. There may be community centers and libraries around you with things to engage with. As much as online spaces can help people feel connected or a shared or safe place, the politics and governance is maintained on the meatspace level of your neighbors. Your district is likely gerrymandered but it’s worth finding out where you stand in the whole tapestry of American governance. (This one can be a huge hurdle, and I understand. Most of my community are military so progressives get like 200 votes per 10,000 pure military industrial zionism. I barely amount to this advice myself, FWIW.)
Join community groups and socialize in meatspace.
This is probably what I’m most interested in, but I find it to be a drag to even locate. I’ve gone to meetup groups and even helped organize a meetup group before but everything about them seemed pretty worthless. It could just be my particular circumstances or my particular location, but it seems like it’s difficult to find any regular community group, and then any – even sporadic – activity outside of work mixers, happy hours, ticketed events, and concerts.
At one point I took a look around the area for mutual aid groups and found only one – and this was mid-pandemic when they were getting a lot of attention and hype – and it didn’t even appear to be active anymore. I think the web link I got was dead or something.
My working theory of why this country is so far off the rails is multifaceted, but one big aspect is that meatspace is deader than myspace.
It certainly can be. And I share the sentiment as I have found it hard myself. I now have a family and kids so that takes up all my time but that in and of itself plugs me into a lot of interactions that I otherwise would have avoided.
So much of our society is built around childrearing though so I am pretty railroaded into following my own advice. But when I was younger I sought out events at local hobby shops: things like open D&D groups, card game tournaments, etc. I highly recommend it, if that’s your thing at all (and your mileage may vary significantly.) But it doesn’t always have to be direct political action to connect with members of your community.
Oh this again? Democratic Party: has our Neo liberalism, refusal to enact progressive policy, and backing of a genocide alienated progressive voters? Disenfranchised voter: damn it we told you a thousand times yes! Democratic Party: No it’s the voters who are wrong.
Hey, hey, marketing yourself as Fascism Lite: Low Sodium as opposed to Fascism Original Recipe has to work at some point, right?
Gotta keep tugging for those republican votes. We may need to adopt some republican priorities in order to get those voters, but its all for a good cause right?
This is a problem with decision hierarchies. Usual election - if both parties have policies I can’t support, then I vote for 3rd party knowing it’s a protest vote.
HOWEVER : if the consequences of the election mean that a dictator and malignantly evil person (and their cronies) may get into power then the FIRST consideration MUST be that he doesn’t get into power. So you vote for the most likely way that the calamity can be stopped.
It’s shit, believe me, I know, but them’s the breaks. The problem has been that people have treated this as ‘election as usual’. The fact that sane people are still arguing over this is concerning.
!!A malignantly evil dictator has overtaken your government and is overtaking your country. You need to work together with the other sane people in order to stop this calamity.!!
But… Eggs!
Non-contributing rage bait. The Democrats were wrong. The Democrats still are wrong. And the Democratic presidential candidate was infinitely better than her opposition.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
We now have definitive proof that most people do not.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
“If they dislike my party, they must support the other party, nothing else exists, right?”
“If you dislike pancakes that must mean you LOOOOVE waffles right?”
No bitch thats a brand new sentence wtf is you talking about.
In a two party system, especially when there’s no clear “I don’t like either” option then yes, nothing else exists. When you don’t vote you’re not saying “I don’t like either party” you’re saying “I don’t care which party wins”. If you don’t care which party wins then you’re in support of both parties.
And it’s telling that so many people didn’t care whether the dictator or Democrats won, isn’t it? If you’re making the case between yourself and a megalomaniac, and the majority of Americans shrug and go about their day, what the hell are you doing wrong?
Ever heard of third parties? I’ve voted Green Party since I could vote. There is the Libertarian, Reform, Constitutional, and several other parties.
Yeah, they’re the non-vote parties. FPTP voting always devolves down to 2 parties, see Duverger’s Law. Even if by some miracle a 3rd party wins (and continues winning) they will eventually kick one of the previous 2 parties out and take their place as the new party in the 2 party system. In practice if my memory doesn’t fail me voting 3rd party hasn’t mattered for over a century because the 2 main parties are so entrenched, so voting for 3rd party is more or less throwing away your vote.
Well I would rather throw my vote away then vote for murdering sociopaths
As a stien voter. I pretty much laugh at people that complain about Democrats loss. Yeah Democrats suck I don’t vote for them because I don’t want them to be legitimized. Also I push for approval voting system
Their job is literally to get elected…
The democrats were wrong, they fucking lost!
The Party cannot fail, it can only be failed.
spoken like a true cult member.
I’m guessing they’re being sarcastic
I voted for Kamala. My parents and grandparents did as well. I do not feel that the democrats were/are doing jack shit to court new voters. The party itself expects to just be the status quo and have people vote for it. Whether people want to admit it or not, the point of being a progressive party is to be… how do I put this… PROGRESSIVE.
Dems didn’t need new voters. They just needed the same folks that voted for Biden in 2020 to show up in 2024.
Too bad they were too racist and sexist to vote for a black woman.
Lot of those people who voted in 2020 weren’t Democratic voters. They voted for the Democrats that one time and then the Democrats failed to retain them. That’s on the Democrats. I don’t know how many times people can say it. It’s a candidate and the party’s job to earn people’s votes. Earn them. There is literally no other way to do it. Democrats refuse to do that that’s why they lose.
Here I thought that 4 years of competent leadership, a booming economy, and some significant legislative victories would earn votes.
Silly me. Clearly the voting populous wanted extreme leftist policies. Explains why Trump won.
What world are you living in where you think the economy of the last 4 years has been booming? Every indicator that isn’t the Dow Jones indicates that the economy has been absolutely fucked for the last 4 years.
The real one?
Where 6 million more people in the US were employed than before the pandemic.
Where inflation in the US was lower than that of peer western countries.
Where the number of people using food stamps decreased.
Where wages went up almost 20% over 4 years.
Where GDP grew by some 14% over 4 years.
Where the S&P 500 increase by 43% over 4 years.
By what reasonable metric would you consider the economy fucked?
Have you tried to actually find a job in the last 2 years? It’s almost impossible despite loads of “we’re hiring!” sighns that are offering less than they were 2 years ago
Most Americans do not care what inflation in the UK or Germany is. They care what it looks like here, and when most Americans were living paycheck to paycheck before Biden took over, inflation hits them even harder.
Maybe average income has gone up that much the last 4 years, but most people’s income has been essentially flat for the last 4. The majority of Americans make less than $30 an hour, which is inadequate to live on nearly anywhere in the country.
GDP is great if you have stocks and bonds. It’s meaningless to your average person who is barely able to put anything into a 401(k).
So your evidence that the economy was broken under Biden is your feelings.
Cool.
So you got 6 different metrics about a good economy and your answer is… that it feels hard to find a job?
Like anyone in IT, I get bombarded by offers on LinkedIn and salaries kept growing just fine.
The numbers clearly say that more people are employed and less are on food stamps, so it could be that you need to do something about yourself?
Very, very well put. I voted for Kamala as well, and this is what I’m trying to scream from the rooftops. The democrats seem to see the current populist moment as an excuse to phone it in. It keeps blowing up in the face, and they keep saying “oh well, I guess we need to move right / let the voters learn their lesson”
That’s literally the program which benefits their donors.
Oh yeah, make no mistake, the Dems are fucked.
It’s just that in '24 we had an option between “continue having a flawed democracy” and “put a literal fascist in power”, and a lot of us are still sore over folks who insisted that choosing the latter was some form of leftism. They weren’t a major force in the general electorate, but here on Lemmy, they were certainly loud, so a lot of bad feeling remains.
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought. Voting for a cop, a warmonger and a complicit child-kidnapper is incompatible with many leftists’ beliefs and values. Continued aversion to actually listening to criticisms of the Dems and DNC from the left is why your beloved party is crashing and burning.
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought. Voting for a cop, a warmonger and a complicit child-kidnapper is incompatible with many leftists’ beliefs and values.
“But she said she wasn’t Trump so she’s clearly the only person to ever consider voting for!”
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought.
No, I absolutely do. They preferred the fascist to working with the dreaded ‘shitlibs’, just like Thalmann.
Nazi punks fuck off.
Call me a Nazi all you like, it doesn’t make me a Nazi. In fact, you moralists should take that log out of your eye and actually look at the world your status-quoism has generated
Hey, cool, you have ADHD too? We can go to RFK’s concentration camps together. I’m sure our Healing Through Labor™ will be successful.
Ooooh! Count me in as a qualifying candidate. I’ll drop my Vyvanse off in the bins outside the gates and partake in the Healing Through Labor™ right beside you, my Brother In- wait… what was I just saying?
Can’t believe our only hope for mitigation of the damage is that the administration is so incompetent that they trick over their own dicks in the process of trying all of their horrors.
It’s not going to be pretty either way.
Call me a Nazi all you like, it doesn’t make me a Nazi.
No? You just welcomed in fascism because it pleased your prejudices and preconceptions. Sounds pretty indistinguishable from most Nazis to me.
In fact, you moralists should take that log out of your eye and actually look at the world your status-quoism has generated
“Wow, the world is bad. We should make it worse.”
Brilliant plan. Millions of LGBT Americans and tens of millions of Ukrainians thank you for your ardent support of fascists taking power. I’m sure those dying for lack of supplies from USAID are thrilled as well, as well as poor Americans who can’t afford the massive increases in costs of living and are already living paycheck-to-paycheck, and the crackdown on unions.
What a brave leftist world you’ve helped create. Maybe if you lick fascist boots a little more, it’ll become even better.
I also find it amusing that I’m getting called a ‘moralist’ because I advocated the utilitarian option. What fucking insanity.
Millions of LGBT Americans
You’re talking to one, and no, the Democrats have backstabbed us at every opportunity. Especially at trans issues, which they love to capitulate on as a bargaining chip for getting their capitalist donors more money.
Maybe if you lick fascist boots a little more, it’ll become even better.
If you walk outside and throw a brick in the face of a cop, you can talk to me about what it means to be a bootlicker.
I also find it amusing that I’m getting called a ‘moralist’ because I advocated the utilitarian option.
You advocate for action based upon a spook? Sorry, that makes you a moralist. You decided that “maximizing utility” was the moral choice, and that again makes you a moralist. Perhaps you should write a sternly worded lever-pulling manifesto to send to your congressman?
You’re talking to one, and no, the Democrats have backstabbed us at every opportunity. Especially at trans issues, which they love to capitulate on as a bargaining chip for getting their capitalist donors more money.
Would you like to remind me about the state of LGBT rights in this country in 2024 compared to 1990?
Soaking in fascist circles seems to sap your connection to reality.
If you walk outside and throw a brick in the face of a cop, you can talk to me about what it means to be a bootlicker.
lmao, you ushered in fascism, bro, and you’re sitting here justifying it besides. Saying “You aren’t attacking enough cops!” to others isn’t going to cure you of your bootlicking position.
You advocate for action based upon a spook?
Jesus fucking Christ.
Sorry, that makes you a moralist. You decided that “maximizing utility” was the moral choice, and that again makes you a moralist.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
The only argument for voting trump while thinking “left” that I can think of, is that all that anger and chaos leads to a big reform of the political landscape where there is a way for a more social system in the end
But I’d consider that an extremely risky move…
That’s literally the accelerationist/anti-electoralist religious doctrine. And I say “religious doctrine” because they keep insisting that people will rise up if they assist in the sacrifice of enough LGBTQ+, POC, and other vulnerable people, despite there being absolutely no evidence in history of that ever occurring, even under brutal totalitarian dynasties that lasted hundreds of years.
They don’t care about the sacrifices. They may say they do but you really can’t if you advocate for accelerationism.
The party itself expects to just be the status quo and have people vote for it.
When the alternative was Trump and Project 2025, that’s exactly what most should have voted for.
But stopping DEI was more important than Social Security for the majority of voters
Peope can’t afford their bills and the Democrats were out there saying the economy is stronger than ever. They had no intention of helping people and you are shocked that people didn’t go out to vote. If it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t, most people will chose the latter
They should at least have voted third party… I think many people should have voted third party… Why do so few people vote third party?
If they are too apathetic to vote for dems, they certainly won’t go out of their way to make a statement and vote third party.
It was stronger than under Trump. Everyone forgot they had to fight for toilet paper under Trump.
Only an absolute moron would believe that the economy was better in 2024 than in 2019 for your average person. You can’t blame the poor economy on Biden, but you can absolutely blame the DNC for not spputing off reforms to help people.
You are one of those who forgot how bad it was. So many millions were in danger of eviction that moratoriums had to be passed.
Exactly. Moratoriums were passed. Absolutely nothing was done the past 2 years as prices for everything skyrocketed. People remember that sort of thing. Literally the forst thing Biden did was break his promise and give out stimulus checks that were nowhere near what he campaigned on.
The economy recovered such that people were able to pay their rent despite the increases. Moratoriums ended yet mass evictions didn’t happen. People were doing far better than under Trump.
Yes, stop thinking and just follow the herd! That’s surely the solution! \s
Thankfully I live in a state where my vote doesn’t matter at all. jfc.
How many years can the libs keep this up?
Enjoy the turbo-genocide ethnic cleansing!
I don’t enjoy it at all. Your glee is disgusting.
Liberals love the bloodshed because they can blame it on the voters, and not that both parties love killing people.
These folks were pissed as all hell about a ceasefire.
Honestly would still respect them more if they voted 3rd party over not voting.
Sadly spoiling ballots with drawings of cocks is much harder with voting machines.
The fact that you have voting machines just doesn’t seem right to me
