• Makeitstop@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Can someone explain how you are supposed to get Russia to leave? Sanctions didn’t work, lethal aid didn’t work, F-16s didn’t work, and striking Russia itself isn’t either.

    These things haven’t won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia’s economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They’ve been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress. This is not a great long term strategy, but it’s the one Russia has been stuck with.

    You can argue for the war to continue I suppose, but Ukraine isn’t winning and I’m not seeing anything here that would change that fact.

    But what’s the alternative? Right now Ukraine can only fight or surrender. While they fight, they can try to negotiate a peace deal, but so far the only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender. Give Russia everything they want, give up on everything you want, stop the fighting for now but put nothing in place to ensure that Russia won’t just rearm and invade again later.

    • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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      7 days ago

      These things haven’t won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia’s economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They’ve been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress.

      Ukrainian propaganda that they’ve been winning all along. Russian military production is over 70% higher than at start of war, 30%/year last 2, and they gain territory every week with a weapons advantage including when new western arms shipments come in. Believing your fantasy is pro suiciding of Ukrainians.

      The only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender.

      The same deal from Russia was always on table for avoiding the war. Absolutely zero reason to think it was ever insincere or not meant to put both countries back at peace. If Ukraine’s goal for a ceasefire is to rearm and resume terrorism operations on liberated regions of Ukraine, then Ukraine needs a new leader to get a lasting peace. Again, zero reason that Russia won’t abide by peace it demands. US led Ukraine on the wrong track, and Ukraine Russia relations can get back on right track with “traditional attitude rulership”

    • lorty@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      There’s no evidence that Russia is going to lose steam economically or on the battlefield any time soon. Continuing to fight a losing war will only make any final deal between the US, Russia and Ukraine worse for the latter. There’s a reason the 2022 treaty that was proposed looks unrealistic today, and whatever deal they make now will be much better than when they finally run out of men in the Ukrainian army.

      With the situation as it stands, negotiating is the best way out if you actually care about Ukraine. If you just want to weaken Russia then sure, fight to the last ukrainian.

        • lorty@lemmy.ml
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          7 days ago

          A lot of news about this conflict has been about what Ukraine would like to be true, rather than the facts.

          • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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            7 days ago

            Well, I ran this through several media bias checkers - it came back as unbiased. Site leans a little left, but that’s about it.

            So tell me again, what are you trying to say? Because if your answer is more or less ‘it’s propaganda’ - I’m not sure I should entertain this topic any further.

            • lorty@lemmy.ml
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              6 days ago

              I’m not sure I understand. The article you have linked concludes with:

              Writing for The Bell, Russian economy experts Alexander Kolyandr and Alexandra Prokopenko also disputed what they described as “claims of an imminent catastrophe” for the Russian economy. “In our view, all things being equal, it’s unlikely that the economy will implode soon,” they write. They have a point.

              Which just agrees with what I’ve said about sanctions not working.