• Ferk@lemmy.ml
    31·
    1 day ago

    I mean… he isn’t wrong. Goals / objectives are not something rational. Rationality is just maths and logic. A computer does not have an objective (not even the objective of preserving itself), unless you program it into it.

    It’s perfectly possible that at some point in our evolutionary past there were creatures that didn’t really care about looking for food to stay alive, the only reason we do care is because we are descendants of the very few weird mutants who had the urge to seek food… most of the ones who didn’t seek it are not here anymore. To think that it’s somehow a miracle that we exist, and that there must be something special/supernatural about us, is a survivor bias fallacy…

    We have objectives programmed into us through our evolutionary development. We define things as “good” or “bad” based on our instincts (our… “heart”), only because they happen to have been selected through evolution. They aren’t really based on rationality (although reason can be used as a tool to try and predict if the action is really consistent with achieving the goals).

    So any response that’s in line with our animal instincts that we’ve developed across our evolution is as good of an answer as to what our motivations are.

    • Poplar?@lemmy.world
      1·
      11 hours ago

      In moral philosophy these are called “evolutionary debunking arguments”. (Wikipedia)

      There are some really good replies to why we shouldnt conclude ethics is moot or something because of evolution. Mentioning this so anyone curious can read about it.

      • Ferk@lemmy.ml
        1·
        6 hours ago

        But I didn’t say or imply that ethics is moot. Following our instincts is not moot, it is healthy, it’s a proven way to our survival.

        I think the wider term is “evolutionary ethics”.

        What it implies is that ethics is relative to our biology. It’s not something universal. However, given that our biology is relative to nature (which is universal) and our development relates to our relationship with nature and the circumstances that made us what we are, ultimately there’s a certain set of instincts that most living beings are likely to have if they are to develop to a certain level of complexity.

        If someday we meet with some alien species out there in the Universe (if that’s possible), it’s likely they will have a different set of instincts and conversely a different set of morals. But many aspects of it are likely to be very similar if not identical… things like the survival instinct, the desire to seek sustenance and the aversion towards things that can potentially be harmful, probably they will experience something equivalent to pleasure and suffering, like we do, as a mechanism for punishment/reward through which they have been conditioned to seek certain stimulus over others. They are likely to experience some form of empathy if they frequently interact with themselves and depend on one another (which is likely a requirement for the advancement of communication and joint engineering feats). It’s more likely that our ethical frameworks will have more similarities than differences.

        Of course this also means that our ethics are clearly biased towards living creatures… it would be very hard (if not impossible) for an ethic framework to defend the ultimate death of the Universe as something good to seek. Even if it were true that this might be the ultimate destination / goal the Universe moves towards.

        I’ll have a look at those books if I can, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they are just attacking straw men or caricatures of the idea instead of actually engaging in honest argumentation. That’s what I’ve often found.

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
    51·
    2 days ago

    Pretty much. The universe is a bunch of random matter. We somehow exist. That will end and there will be nothing. Bring on the babes. If not, at least give me drugs.

    • racoon@lemmy.ml
      2·
      1 day ago

      you can get tired of whimsical hot babes. Friends and family, though.

      Edit: ok, you can get tired of them, too.

      • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
        3·
        1 day ago

        Edit: ok, you can get tired of them, too.

        i got my own lesson in those too when i came out. lol

        • Chaos@lemmy.ml
          1·
          1 day ago

          I got my own lesson in those too when i came out. lol What? Why? Did they tickle your pickle? 😐

    • Chaos@lemmy.ml
      2·
      1 day ago

      Idk never met those said “hot babes” however I keep getting notified about them “hot milfs in my area wants to tickle my pickle”