people are going to be hesitant to move somewhere else

It is however much easier to move between fediverse instances than it is to move from commercial social media to the fediverse. Once you’re on the fediverse, moving is easier.

for such people who want to live inside their echo chamber, I support their right to do so.

My point is that I don’t think the software should be doing this stuff. Marking users and instances is akin to a kind of censorship on those instances. Censorship is the job of the instance, not the software. Collapsing comments at a certain level is again a kind of censorship that encourages mob thinking and hides any dissident opinion (so I find it a bit funny that you say it helps to include “more complex and nuanced views”; in my opinion, it would seem to do the opposite of that).

Anyways that’s just my take on it, I don’t really have the patience to write out a 10 paragraph response and I don’t need to because I use what I prefer and you can use what you prefer, fediverse is great like that.

I think I’ve mentioned this before but I personally really don’t like the way piefed is so opinionated. It focuses on low karma, high downvote rate, for some reason doesn’t award karma for memes and I just saw that “recognition of 4chan posts” feature which is just weird. To me, there can be legit reasons for all these things and I don’t think it’s the job of the software to handle these. That seems very opinionated/authoritarian to me.

Just because an application supports ActivityPub doesn’t mean it will be compatible.

Well of course, but it could be made to be compatible!I feel like we’re kind of missing out here on the threadiverse cause we can’t see all those other things happening elsewhere.

That’s fair - but in a perfect world, all these platforms would connect together, right?

Isn’t that a bit of a shame though? I mean the fact that there’s so little interconnection between these platforms. I know culturally there isn’t too much but also the threadiverse often doesn’t federate properly or support the way the rest of the fediverse works.

I see where you come from, but it’s still a platform, a network.

But that network is not Lemmy or kbin or mbin or piefed. That network is activitypub, the platform is activitypub. Those backends are just what you use to connect to the network, but you could use any other implementation (just that there aren’t that many right now).

But all that matters is the protocol. In time, we’ll have loads of implementations and we should hope we do. More choices for everyone :)

Ableskievers

Where are you from? I didn’t realize anyone outside Denmark or maybe some nordic countries made these. :)

You can make your own alternatives, that’s the difference. If you think the mods/admins of those comms/instances aren’t doing well, then you could do better yourself. That’s the freedom that the fediverse gives you. You could not do the same on Reddit.

Not sure about that one but the following one:

In each language, the words for yes and no never change, regardless of which question they are answering.

This happens in Danish actually. Example:

Kan du lide is? (Do you like ice cream?)
Ja
Kan du ikke lide is? (Do you not like ice cream?)
Jo

So in Danish we have “ja” which means “yes” but “jo” is used instead when answering a negative question, so as to confirm what the negative question asked. This is kind of annoying in English cause if you ask “Do you not like ice cream?” then if you say “yes” does that mean “yes I like ice cream” or does it mean “yes I do not like ice cream”? That’s what “jo” disambiguates.

There’s also a link to Matrix, which I’m guessing is the preferred way to jump in and ask questions about how to contribute.

Yes but asking directly instead of consuming already-written guidelines is a much higher psychological hill to climb and doesn’t feel welcoming. You need to be very passionate to go to Matrix. Also, frankly speaking, UX people are very unlikely to have a user on Matrix or even know what it is or how it works. Developers on the other hand can easily figure this out. You need to be mindful of tech literacy when you’re trying to cater to UX people - they won’t know anything about Matrix probably.

In general, I recommend coming with the intention of being assigned work

I don’t think that’s bad, but for developers this is very easy with all the guidelines and the “good first issues” and all that. For UX people, none of these resources exist.

Where would you naturally look for this? With developers it’s easy, you look for “CONTRIBUTING.md” or similar in the repo, as well as hints from templates in issues and PRs. Some will have extensive style guides and whatnot, but most are pretty bare bones.

Should this go on the main website? Somewhere at the start of the technical docs? In the repo in a special place linked from the root?

At the very least this could be in the contributing guidelines on GitHub, but I think having it on the main website (a place much more familiar and friendly to non-technical people) is much better.

What about tooling? Should projects set up something like penpot (found after a search for FOSS Figma)? Or are designers okay with images on a wiki or something? Is it reasonable to ask them to submit a GitHub issue and engage that way (they could link to something else)?

I don’t know, I’m not a UX person. Ask them when they arrive. But I would think they can probably figure out to interact on GitHub issues if directed to do so. Developers intuitively know “Oh I want to contribute so I’ll need a GitHub account and then need to go look at issues” but UX people don’t know this.

To me, linking a chat and the repo is enough, but maybe it’s not.

I definitely don’t think that’s enough - UX people probably don’t even know what a “repo” is.

What do you mean by “invite”? What would that look like?

I don’t mean a literal invite - I mean that projects are rarely inviting for product managers and designer (let’s call them “UX people”) and rarely do they encourage those people to contribute.

Let’s take a look at Lemmy as an example (and please don’t misunderstand, this is not to bash Lemmy specifically, this happens for so many FOSS projects). Let’s put ourselves in the shoes of a UX person who wants to contribute to Lemmy. How would I (the imaginary UX person) do that?

Well, on join-lemmy.org there’s not really any links to anything to do with contributing but there is a link to “GitHub” in the contact information. As a UX person, I may have a vague idea what git and GitHub is, but obviously that’s not a tool that I use. So then I land on the git repository on GitHub. Oh great, there’s a “Contributing” section! It says:

Read the following documentation to setup the development environment and start coding

Oh. So that’s contributing code and stuff. So that’s not me. But okay since there’s nothing else, let’s try and go to the contributing guidelines anyway. But this just gives a technical overview of the different software components of Lemmy, and then goes into how to setup local development. This is all mumbo-jumbo to me, I know nothing about coding, I am a UX person.

My point is (and again, Lemmy is just an example here), none of these contributing guidelines are helpful unless you are a developer, and the fact that the contributing guidelines only caters to developers makes any UX person feel out of place, as if their expertise is not wanted or needed. This is what I mean when I say it is not very inviting to UX people. It is very inviting to developers though.

That’s how it should work for design as well. Contribute some designs that you think will improve the UX and if they’re desirable, someone will take up implementing them. If it’s easy (e.g. a new logo), it’ll get done right away, and if it’s more involved, it’ll get done as devs get time.

I agree! But how are designers supposed to know where to even start? There are “good first issues”, but those are also only for developers. Where’s the contributing guidelines for non-developers? You say “Designers and product managers are certainly welcome”, but this doesn’t look that welcoming to me!

My perspective of designers and product managers is that they like to own projects.

I think this is a bit of a mischaracterization. I don’t think a product manager has to “own” the project to help and be valuable to a project.

One project that does this quite well is bevy. See this video from one of the product manager contributors to bevy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PJaiSpbmc

people good at UX don’t seem to care as much about FOSS and the open web

I’m not sure this is true - at least I have an alternative explanation.

People who do the UX design and all that are rarely invited into the process. Open source projects often look for “maintainers” but this almost exclusively means “developers”.

There’s documentation and contributing guidelines for developers. Where is the same material for product managers or designers?

We don’t get product managers and designers in FOSS because they’ve never been invited.

The major platforms are convenient.

But the open web offers something better: genuine ownership, community governance, and independence.

This has a kind of underlying connotation that the open web can’t be convenient. This is not true.

It is true that lots of platforms on the fediverse (Lemmy included) don’t have the best user experience and user journey flow. But that’s not how it has to be. We don’t have to accept that as a given.

It’s the same problem that Linux faces, where UX issues aren’t prioritised because the user base is technical enough to deal with the bullshit. We can’t let the same thing occur to the fediverse.

Writing from Feddit.dk which is on Hetzner :)

Tbf the flat buttonless style makes them really easy to clean.

Bluesky is not truly decentralized, in the same way that Mastodon is. Bluesky is effectively centralized and is still controlled by an american corporation and could in principle be bought in the same way that Twitter was. Lastly, Bluesky made their own protocol instead of using the already-standard ActivityPub protocol. That’s why a lot of people are skeptical and recommend Mastodon instead.

If a ban is justified, then there is (pretty much by definition) no power tripping, right? So I feel like it definitely makes sense for this community to downvote if the ban is justified.